TRANSCRIPT – 2GB Radio Sydney

Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Leader of the Opposition in the Senate
Senator for Western Australia

TRANSCRIPT

2GB Radio with Mark Levy

TOPICS: welcome to country debate in the Senate, net zero

25 July 2025

E&OE

Mark Levy

In the Senate yesterday there was a debate about welcome to country. Now I have the utmost respect for Senator Jacinta Price because she says what so many Australians and indigenous Australians think, but they’re intimidated to say publicly because they don’t want to be cancelled. I also respect the opinion of Senator McCarthy, especially when you consider she also spoke from the heart about the importance of a welcome to country. She’s entitled to that opinion, but you see, Penny Wong couldn’t help herself. She wanted to shut down those who oppose her.

Penny Wong (audio from Senate)

You do not have to agree with the tradition of acknowledging country, but it is part of rituals and traditions of this chamber, and as a senator, I think you should respect it.

Mark Levy

Now it’s a bit rich for Senator Wong to stand there and lecture people on respect when she’s one of the mean girls. Well, sitting on the other side of the chamber was a fired up Senator Michaelia Cash.

Senator Cash (audio from Senate)

I can tell you, do not ever demean anybody. Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price. Her mother’s story. Bess Price. I suggest you all read it. A woman walking through the desert was her mother, who had her baby between her legs under a tree. She picked up that baby, she cut the umbilical cord, and she kept walking. I suggest you read the story of Bess Price before you ever come in here and cast aspersions or tell us Senator Wong to respect other words. I will stand by and respect Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, who, every day has lived and breathed reconciliation in this country. Her father is white, her mother is black. So please don’t ever come into this place again and pontificate to us like you’ve just done.

Mark Levy

Bravo, Senator, bravo. I’m pleased to say Michaelia Cash is on the line from Canberra. Senator, good morning to you.

Senator Cash

Good morning Mark, and good morning to your listeners.

Mark Levy

Well you’re being applauded by our listeners, and good on you for standing up for Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, who I think, delivered one of the most powerful speeches I’ve ever seen in the chamber yesterday. What say you?

Senator Cash

It’s not just about Jacinta. Let’s face it, Mark, we are all tired of virtue signalling. In particular in the Australian Senate, people are tired of being pontificated to because someone on the left disagrees with their view. Each of us, it doesn’t matter who we are in Australia and in the Australian Senate, we are entitled to our opinion, and that opinion should be respected. We should not be told by Senator Wong, as she did yesterday, that someone else’s opinion, which is different rom ours, is what grace and respect look like. The virtue signaling needs to end. The left need to understand a person who holds an opinion that is different to theirs, in particular, someone like Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, who, yes she does have strongly held views about the acknowledgement and the welcome to country issue. Those views are based on lived experience each day, her view is as valid as anybody else.

Mark Levy

I could not agree more with you, Senator, and it’s a bit rich, isn’t it, for Penny Wong to stand there and speak about respecting welcome to country when she won’t respect the right of other senators to voice their opinions in the parliament.

Senator Cash

Absolutely. Senator, Wong should never have entered the debate, as you have rightly said. Minister Malarndirri McCarthy gave her opinion. Pauline Hanson responded and gave her opinion. Senator Larissa Waters gave her opinion on behalf of the Australian Greens and Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price gave her opinion as an indigenous woman from the Coalition. That is where the matter should have ended, Mark. The debate was done respectfully. Those who wished to express their opinion did, and they were listened to in respectful silence. There was nothing more to be said. I certainly did not intend to speak. But then Senator Wong, as is often the case, could not help herself. She wanted to have the final say. And then the lecturing and the pontification commenced. And as I said, we are so tired, Mark, of virtue signalling in the Australian Senate. All of our views are valid, and all of our views should be respected.

Mark Levy

Now, Senator, you wouldn’t have seen this, but when Penny Wong sat down, she turned around to her Labor colleagues after your speech, I should say, and looked to utter the words, what was all that about? Now, if she doesn’t understand what you were talking about, doesn’t that just emphasise how out of touch this foreign minister is?

Senator Cash

I think Senator Wong realised that perhaps she should not have spoken. She should have actually let the debate finish after the four senators had spoken. What was worse, Mark, is Penny Wong said she would not allow anyone else in the chamber to speak after she had spoken. That again, is the left on display. You shut down debate. I, as the Leader of the Opposition, if they want to silence me, they will need to do so on the Hansard record. And I made myself clear, if you do not want to give me leave, you will need to do it on the Hansard record. And then Senator Wong realised it was a step too far, and she had to let me speak. But I cannot believe that Senator Wong was going to deny others, including myself, the right to speak, so she would have had the final say in the Australian Senate. And as I said, she lectured. I believe she pontificated, and that is wrong.

Mark Levy

I watched it all unfold yesterday, and it was as if Penny Wong was the ruler on what’s right and wrong, despite the fact we do live in a democracy, and this is a foreign minister who’s representing our interests on the world stage. Is this the normal sort of behavior from Senator Wong in that upper house that Australians might not get to see at the same sort of level as the House of Representatives, where a lot of the air time is given? Is this what we’ve come to expect from Penny Wong?

Senator Cash

I think it’s what’s happened over a period of time now where the left believe very much on so many levels that their opinion is relevant. And I think, as Jacinta said yesterday, everybody is entitled to have their view. But Jacinta, in saying her view is often criticised by the left as being a racist, and I’ll quote Jacinta here: “if you speak up against it, another view, if you mention it, you are painted as a racist, or somebody who is a coconut or somebody who is a traitor.” And then Jacinta says this: “imagine if we treat every single racial group in this manner in our country. It is horrendous, and it begins with the virtue signalling.” And I’m glad that what we saw yesterday was the virtue signalling by the left leader. Perhaps it’s time now that it’s stopped. Perhaps it’s time now in this new parliament, because we are in a new parliament that yes, Labor and the Greens do have the numbers. That is Australia’s reality. Labor and the Greens now run Australia. But that does not mean that the quiet Australians views cannot be represented in a respectable manner on a daily basis across Australia. And maybe yesterday was a turning point. Enough is enough, the virtue signalling, the pontification by the left, it must stop, and we must respect each other’s views.

Mark Levy

I couldn’t agree more again, and very well said. Before you go, there’s a meeting tomorrow of the WA State Council. There’s a report today on the front page of The Australian suggesting you’ll be backing two motions, which are the welcome to country speeches being stripped of official status, and only Commonwealth and state flags appearing at government events. Is that where you’re at given it’s at odds with Sussan Ley?

Senator Cash

Oh, look, these are my long held opinions. And anyone in the Liberal Party of Western Australia knows I’ve held these opinions since I became a Senator. So I’ve been on the record for over a decade, in fact, over 15 years now, Mark, in relation to these issues. These have certainly been the views held by the WA Liberal Party. So for me, it’s a stock standard state council meeting tomorrow. These motions have been our policy position in the past. Everybody’s entitled to their position. That’s what I love about the Liberal Party. We’re all entitled to our opinion, and we don’t criticise others for having theirs. But as I said, I’m on the record long held views in relation to this, and I welcome the debate tomorrow by the WA Liberal Party State Council.

Mark Levy

Given the position quite clearly that’s been taken by the Nationals at the moment, even though David Littleproud hasn’t gone on record to suggest which way he’ll be sort of going on this whole net zero thing and where he is with, you know, welcome to countries and everything else. I do want to ask you about net zero, because Andrew Hastie, I mean, he’s steadfast in his opposition to the pursuit of net zero. And I know the Liberal Party hasn’t yet formed its position. You were just talking there about your personal opinion. What’s your personal opinion on net zero?

Senator Cash

I think on net zero the question that we need to prosecute – the left of Labor now run the country. They are taking us down a pathway that is actually going to cost the Australian people. Net zero was an aspirational target by 2050. The question needs to be net zero at what cost? I will always put the Australian people and the cost of net zero to them whenever they receive their energy account each month, that will always be my first consideration.

Mark Levy

So are you for a target or against a target? When it comes to net zero?

Senator Cash

As I said, I’m going to have this debate respectfully and internally, and I think Sussan’s done the right thing. Our policies are up for review, but our values are not. But I will be making it very clear, and again, I’m on the record, this is my long held view – cheaper and consistent energy, is my clear focus. Of course, we want to reduce emissions, but the question we must focus on is this, at what cost? And it could not be a cost to the Australian people.

Mark Levy

All right, Senator, well done yesterday. It’s nice to hear somebody standing up for what a lot of Australians think at the moment and standing up for the right for everybody to voice their opinion. I thank you for joining us on this Friday.

Senator Cash

Great to be with you.