TRANSCRIPT - TV INTERVIEW - SUNRISE WITH NAT BARR AND SENATOR MCKENZIE

E&OE Transcript
Television interview
Sunrise Seven Sydney
WEDNESDAY, 13 AUGUST 2025

SUBJECTS: Australia’s recognition of a Palestinian state, Palestinian Authority support poll, two-state solution.

NATALIE BARR: The Coalition says it will revoke recognition of a Palestinian statehood should it win the next election. Sussan Ley's vow to overturn the Government's historic decision comes after the Prime Minister cited assurances from the leader of the Palestinian authority that Hamas could be disarmed from Gaza. But data shows that support for the Palestinian authority is actually only at about 22 per cent across Palestine, with 57 per cent backing Hamas.

For their take let's bring in Housing Minister Clare O'Neill and Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie. Good morning to you. 

Clare, so these new figures saying support for Hamas in Palestine is sitting at nearly 60 per cent according to this survey, half of Palestinians believe October 7 was correct, 40 per cent say Hamas will still have power after the war. Are you concerned by these figures? 

CLARE O'NEIL: Nat, the Prime Minister addressed this topic yesterday and made the point that it is a bit ridiculous to think that we're going to get quality polling information out of a part of the world that is war‑torn and being subject to a man‑made famine. 

What is occurring here is that the Australian Government is doing what we do best on the international stage, and that is we're doing the right thing. Australians watching at home are probably not necessarily familiar with the ins and outs of the long history of conflict in this region, but what they do know is that enough is enough. People are sick of watching their television every night and seeing children being starved as a tool of war. It is wrong and the lasting peace in this region will only be achieved through a two‑state solution. 

It's become clear that this is not going to occur unless governments like Australia step up and recognise in the way that the Prime Minister has outlined. 

NATALIE BARR: Okay, Bridget, so the government's saying these figures are wrong, or they at least could be. The other side of this is Israel has had two years of bombing, people are dying. How long do we keep doing this? 

BRIDGET MKKENZIE: Well, Nat, I think everybody can agree that we want the suffering to end. We want the war to end. But rewarding a terrorist organisation like Hamas, baby killing, innocent ‑ murderers and rapists, by giving them what they want in recognition of Palestinian state prior to having a negotiated outcome with Israel is the wrong thing to do. It's more about appeasing domestic political concern and left-wing world leaders. 

It won't bring about a two‑state solution, it won't return one single hostage, and it will not mean that the aid in Gaza flows freely, this step by the Prime Minister. And in fact you mention in your opening comments, you know, he's putting it all, all his hopes and prayers on Mahmoud Abbas, a 90‑year‑old guy in Gaza, in the situation even as the polling you suggested says that 77 per cent of people in Gaza don't want Hamas disarmed. This guy doesn't have authority on the ground, he's failed to actually negotiate a peace process in the past, and his own people don't want to see Hamas disappear from Gaza. That's the reality of the situation we're dealing with. 

NATALIE BARR: Clare, it does seem right that, you know, how do we trust polling out of, you know, the place that we see on the news, that is, you know, bombed to smithereens, but how much credence can we put in the leader of the Palestinian Authority who has made these promises that Hamas will not be part of a new government, do we really know that a terror organisation will pack up its bags and go home, and where's home?

CLARE O'NEIL: Well, of course, Nat, it's not going to be as simple as that. But if I can be really clear about this. What Hamas want is for the violence and the killing to continue because that is the environment when they are flourishing. 

What we are working to do is to put in place ultimately a democracy in this new state of Palestine, soon to be recognised state of Palestine by our Government. And I'd say to your viewers again, whatever you may feel about global affairs, the only solution here is to have a two‑state solution, and while I'm respectful of the way that Bridget's engaged with this issue this morning, I don't agree with her. We are not going to see a two‑state solution unless countries like Australia, like Canada, like the UK, like France step up and actually take a position here, and that is what the Australian Government is participating in.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah, Bridget, if you disagree with what the Prime Minister has done, the Coalition does, you're against some big countries. Basically all the big countries against the US. Are you confident on that? 

BRIDGET MKKENZIE: Well, this is what people at home need to realise, you know, the Prime Minister deciding he's going to stand up on the floor of the UN to recognise a Palestinian state which has no government and is run by a terrorist organisation, actually won't change anything on the ground. 

I think there's sort of a misunderstanding that somehow the Palestinian state will be created. That has to be a negotiated outcome between Israel and Palestine about where the borders are, how it's going to be run and constructed. Are we seriously going to be sending in UN peacekeepers into Gaza to get rid of Hamas? Is that going to be the end game here? 

Clare, we all want to end the suffering, everybody does, but wars end when someone surrenders. Germany had to surrender; Japan had to surrender. You have to surrender, war ends, and then you can actually have a negotiated outcome about where the line is around a two‑state solution, which the Coalition remains absolutely committed to. 

NATALIE BARR: Okay. And you're saying the world is doing it but those on the ground aren't. Look, it is obviously a very emotive issue and there are two sides here. Thank you very much for yours. We will have the Opposition ‑ the Coalition leader Sussan Ley on in just a few minutes and she will put their case for that. Thank you very much, see you next week.

Ends